Vivziepop with Lucifer: I’ll give him ducks, rubber ducks, and daughter problems or something
Me and Lucifer in my universe: It’s time for a traumatic ride
Text
Anyway, most of my exposure to Hazbin (and Helluva) is from after the release of Season 1 on Prime. I’m dimly aware of some of the background world building because I also engage with fanworks, fandom, fanfiction, though I’m also very aware a lot has changed so I take it all with some salt. Vaggie being an angel and not named Vagatha is the most defining example.
But a thing that’s been in my head is. I agree with @ohnoitstbskyen, with the theme of the show being redemption, someone really actually bad has to be redeemed. And, in alphabetical order, the most evil characters of the show thus far are Adam, Alastor, Valentino and Vox.
Now, Adam was seemingly killed off for, lore reasons, even if I think him being a sinner could be fun (and, I mean, he spent all of season 1 sinning, the sins of pride, wrath and lust especially) and Alastor. He’s treated as an evil person, but he’s also, broadly, a protagonist. The Token Evil Teammate, or the Big Bad Friend. We know he’s evil, maybe more evil than the actual villains, but everything he does, mostly, helps the other protagonists, the good guys. That will probably change, but part of Alastor, inherently, is that we take pleasure in him, that we enjoy watching him scheme and be a piece of shit. And, that’s true of all of the characters, but. I think the most hated character in the show, by the fandom, is Valentino. And, for good reason, he’s an abuser, a sex trafficker/pimp, a drug dealer who uses drugs to control people, and overall, a monster of a kind that is very. Realistic.
But, anyway. What I’ve heard floating around is that he’s, or, at least, his relationship with Angel Dust, is based on Viv Medrano’s personal experience, and that he is specifically based on one of her partners, specifically, an ex partner, I believe ex-boyfriend, and a relationship she’s happy she got out of.
That’s what I’ve heard, it’s, again, hearsay. I can’t find a source, and. I’m not all that interested in her as a person, or any of the lore and worldbuilding stuff, but. If this aspect of the show and the characters and character dynamics derives from personal, authorial experience. I find myself actually being really interested in that, and if it’s true, and what, specifically, the quote and details of it are. Because I do think. Like, if part of the show is, specifically, deliberately inspired and based on real life and personal experience. Like, yes, death of the author, but I do think that critical interpretation and thought requires me, or should require me, for at least one critical perspective. To know more about that?
Because. People keep talking about Valentino being redeemed, and. My own perspective on that, maybe doesn’t matter, because I haven’t really personally experienced quite the things that are exactly the same as people that are victims of people like Valentino. But.
I mean, the thing I keep rotating in my head, is. I do think there’s a way to have Valentino be a good person, but it hinges on the fact, if it’s true, that he’s, based, specifically, as an ex or Medrano. As in, not a current partner. As in, if Angel Dust is the stand in for Viv, and this story is based on what happened to her. It doesn’t end with him changing in the sense of him actually becoming a good partner to his actual victim, it ends with them separating and being apart. Angel Dust, the victim, goes free.
It can be cathartic, yeah, to imagine bad people suffering forever, and being punished, but. As someone who has been a victim of abuse, albeit not sexual or romantic. What’s a lot tougher and. Certainly. Not as explored in media. Is when the people that hurt us. Do end up changing, being better, and being kind to others the way they never were to us. And how to deal with that. Live with it.
And, I mean, the hatedom for the series and the creator is already. Insane. And almost every argument is in bad faith, and. I will be honest, even with the moments of good writing, with the way the show is paced, and the time they have to work with in their season length. I don’t know that they could pull it off. And, I mean, I don’t think the show has enough evidence yet that it will. It could just be content to have Valentino continue to be completely awful, but sometimes funny and charming. With some of that fun stemming from how shitty and sex-obsessed he is.
But. The short version, because the topic keeps coming up. I think that, if Valentino does end up changing for the better, getting redeemed, he and Angel Dust and all Val’s other victims should stay far away from each other. But, with the way the show’s message and core idea is rehabilitive justice, that everyone “can” be redeemed (if they want it, if they try) I don’t actually think it would be. The worst thing that could happen. If it’s done well enough.
Though, yikes, I don’t know, with the length of the seasons and the length of each episode. Like, I don’t know that I think there’s anyone on the planet good enough to pull it off, and even if I broadly actually like the writing of the show and the way it handles things, usually. I’m not sure I think it could pull it off.
Though, I also don’t know that I think it’s going to, so I think getting mad about it either way right now is. Stupid. But people online keep bringing it up, and for some reason I found it interesting to think about it right now.
(tagging @tbposting because they’re inadvertently the reason I’m thinking about it)
But anyway, if the thing about Val being based on Viv’s real ex is true, I would be interested if anyone that cares and knows could find the source, and evidence of it. Because if it’s even true, I do genuinely think it’s a critical shard of the interpretive lens. For what’s going to or might happen in the future, and to understand what the show is actually trying to do.
And, I don’t think it needs to be too parasocial, and we need details about, who the ex was and the relationship, she should save that for her memoirs or whatever, I don’t want anything or anyone doxxed. I hope nobody does. But just, the knowledge of if here’s an autobiographical basis or not, if that actually was confirmed, if that actually is the intent, I think is interesting to find out. Maybe.
Text
NOT a vivzipop fan but i made these for a friend and didnt want them to just go to one person so. hellaverse shipping charts (one for regular shiping and one for oc relationships)
Text
If the homestuck fandom reacted better to Vivziepop’s pilot than the KOG fandom did to the news that Frankie wasn’t transgender, you know something went wrong.
Text
Vivzipop homestuck show (featuring Toby fucking Fox) does not feel like real life. It took me a minute to analyze what the fuck was even happening. I felt like I was dreaming.
Text
I’m so tired of people saying shit and not backing it up with any proof. 90% of the reason why Vivziepop and her fans get to pretend they’re fucking martyrs is because people, under the guise of being “critical” make shit up or believe shit at face value because it helps push their agenda against Vivziepop. “Media literacy” is one thing but if Vivziepop stans actually wanna call out critics for something, tell them they have no fucking journalistic integrity because that’s actually probable, unlike the shit they say and believe on a regular basis.
Text
Hazbin haters are actually insane I think. On every social media I see things like “UGH HAZBIN HOTEL IS SO BAD THEY SWEAR SO MUCH VIVZIPOP SUCKS! IF YOU LIKE HAZBIN HOTEL FUCKING KILL YOURSELF!!! #hazbin #hazbinhotel #charliemorningstar #Alastor #angeldust” and every single comment will be agreeing with them and criticizing the show or just hating and I’m just like. ???? ????? ?????????????????????????? What the fuck???????????? ??????? HUH??????????? ??
Text
gotta give Credit where Credit is due vivzipop
not just Ending it with a hug but also having the whole ep be not sexual really did wonders for their dynamic and potential Future
proud even i really thought they were gonna kiss ( edit: i did ONCE but that was early and honestly not really sexual i was talking about the end of the Episode)
Text
Ok so I know its Mastermind Era but I’m still not over Ghostf*ckers and I need to get this out of my system.
We all know this episode focused more on Millies and Blitz’ relationship, which was beautiful. I loved seeing our girl getting more screentime.
And I just found it interesting how there were subtle hints at her own struggles within the group. I mean, yes, there was the thing about how she felt like she was worth nothing and all she was good for was muscle and working for some higher class demons, but there is also this line from where she asks Loona to take care of Moxie :
Which to me was such an interesting line, because it meant that she basically acts as the mental support character for the boys, as a catalyst and someone who constantly has to look after them, make sure they stay out of trouble or feel ok. Which implies a lot of things that unfortunately go untouched but that would mean that Millie feels exhausted always being behind the boys backs and needing to take care of them, and has to juggle between taking care of Moxie and catalysing Blitz.
If it had time to be explored, I’d love to see how Millie has to navigate each of the boys tantrums and sensibilities and being careful and diplomatic in order not to send them off and trying to do her best catalyzing their temper and offering them comfort, and how this affects her and tires her.
I think that’s super interesting, and also the fact that she and Loona could eventually work together in order to keep the boys out of trouble, taht Loona could support Millie in that.
Anyways, just rambling.
Text
After all that… hope Octavia and Stolas aren’t separated for too long. GAHHHH StELLA you biTCH
That song was fire though
Text
The sad thing is she’s correct. If Helluva/Hazbin was run by a man she would have never been attacked the way she has been. As we found out with this election, people don’t care about women and do not see them as capable and worthy. The way people treat Viv and Spindlehorse is just proof of that.